16669 Log Cabin

The land bank has decided to accept my proposal to purchase this 3700sf 4 unit building. I would be interest to see if anyone wanted to brainstorm some ideas and possibly discuss venture options.

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Awesome news @Dame ! Congrats, I’d be excited to discuss this, and ideas depending on what kind of collaboration you’re looking for. I’m comfortable contributing general carpentry, electrical wiring, demolition, door installation, putting new glass into windows, toilet replacement, PEX replacement, and replacing the spark box on a boiler, thanks to my experience at 3731, the maker farm in Missouri, and working with @adrian .

Would you want to have a video chat meeting this week, say Wednesday (tomorrow)?

I’m in talks with https://rigor.build as well, which matchmakes crypto and decentralized finance lenders who want to fund construction. I’m working to put together a prospectus for potential lenders for 3731. We can make it a reusable template for future properties as well.

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Great ! This is an all hands on deck type of ordeal so all of your everyone else included experience will be appreciated. Tomorrow will be fine. There are few stipulations the land bank has which is standard procedure. One is the property must be rehabbed. The rest of the details can be discussed tomorrow.
Look forward to it.

Congrats @Dame ! Thats a beautiful place in a cool location.

I’m interested in being involved and brainstorming. I also just met some folks who are mutual friends and live in my area who joined a house rehab co-op based in Detroit (I believe the co-op is 6 months old).

I can’t meet tomorrow unfortunately but we could also talk a little after the Friday call.

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Nice ! If Friday is best for everyone then we just talk then.

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Great it sounds like Friday after our meeting with Planet Detroit we could hold our own in-person discussion, that I’d like to open to our wider community, neighbors, and meetup as well for questions and feedback.

How about 4pm Detroit time? I’ve scheduled this meeting below but can change it as necessary. Does that work @adrian @Dame ?

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Great to hear @adrian I would be open to meeting with them at some point and sharing experiences if that’s interesting to us and them. It seems like house rehab cooperatives could be a bigger movement that we can be part of.

Around 4 PM should works for me, but Ill be on the road at the time (jumping in the car right after the PlanetDetroit call) so ill just call in. I may be 10-15 min late.

I truely feel like this is a great opportunity to expand some of the concepts such as truly affordable housing and self sustainability. IMO this would be ideal for co-op housing. There are 4 units w/ 2BR 1B with expansion potential in the attic and basement for several more units. This is a full rehab with much of the same work that 3771 needs but can be a good opportunity. If that sounds interesting then let me know.

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I love the idea and personally support rehabbing this house. I’d like the Arcology system to be on a per-house basis, and each member reading the forum post here can choose to be in or out, no obligations.

This will be a chance to solve similar things that we also need to solve for 3731: legal ownership contract, borrowing money, who to sell or rent to. I’d also be interested in a (virtual) house tour or posting pictures here, and letting us do our own house inspection and post our thoughts here of potential problem areas and quotes of how much we think it will be to fix.

Let me map this location to see how far it is from 3731 and Hanover House.

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Great. We can work out all of the ownership details for both properties at a date appropriate for everyone. At this point I will map out a rough budget for this project as you and Adrian have done for 3731. We can add additional input after the interested parties sees the virtual tour however I mite add this will be a full gut rehab and will be extensive. I will actually be starting the demo tomorrow so I will record photos and videos.

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11 minutes driving from 3731, not bad. In Highland Park.

@Dame for our chat this afternoon, do you have an idea of a rough budget for this house? Including how much to close on the property and how much to bring up to code. I think that will help us when we apply to grants or raise money from lenders. Thanks.

Sorry for missing our scheduled time yesterday (Monday) afternoon. I sent a calendar invite to you @adrian and @Dame for Wednesday at 3pm Detroit time.

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I’d like to gather questions here to set our agenda. Please reply here if there are specific items you’d like to discuss.

Agenda for mtg (feel free to add)

  • what is the timeline?
  • what is the budget?
  • equity or lending? if lending what collateral?
  • selling or renting?
  • possible funding sources, including people on the call
  • anything else?

Thanks for the meeting @Dame @adrian and the chance to be a part of a new house with a lot of potential!

Action items from meeting:

Paul

  1. I ask Rigor and other DeFi sources for constructions loads
  2. Follow up with DJC about simpler contract, for both Northwestern and Log Cabin houses

Damien

  1. Put together detailed budget / estimate with materials and labor for Log Cabin house

Adrian

  1. Contact Detroit Community Wealth Fund (Margo) about loan for Log Cabin house, amounts available, interest and payment schedule, requirements to be a cooperative, etc.

Also, approximately $4,000 might be available from the original DetroitDAO .
@adrian do you mind polling the members who live at Hanover House how they feel about investing this money into 16669 Log Cabin Rd?

Proposal to spend original DetroitDAO fund, and other DAO grants

Id be happy to answer those questions. That was a very productive meeting. I also had a few questions as well I forgot to ask during the meeting.

  1. How does this property fit into the scope of what Detroit Arcology is trying to accomplish.

  2. Would holding the property cause any issues with the business structure?

  3. How much equity does X amount of dollars give you ?

Video recording or today’s meeting

Those are good questions @Dame I’ll attempt some answers and would be interested to hear what @adrian @yfgame and others think as well.

My own goals within Detroit Arcology is to have a community investment trust, that we can build on every year, both in terms of land we steward, houses we improve, our own skills, and the benefit we provide to the neighborhood. I’d like to have neighbors be able to contribute and invest money and effort into, and trust that it will still be here years from now, and that if they need a place to live for themselves and their families, their contributions will count towards a benefit for them: maybe lower rent or sale price, maybe help with repairs in their own house, or food from a community garden or something else.

Right now, the chief benefit I discuss below is the ability to borrow money against their reputation in Detroit Arcology, which we are helping @Dame exercise.

  1. How does I see 16669 Log Cabin Road fitting in? I’d like to provide a way for neighbors to contribute time or money or materials, track it here on this forum, and for them to be able to have first choice of renting the house when it’s done, or have first choice of buying the units if we ever decide to sell. I’d also like them to be able to give us feedback here about the rehabbing we’re doing, to request future repairs, and to be able to vote on which future houses we rehab or focus on. Also, the investment or loan amount I put into this and future houses would be proportional to how much effort and documentation people contribute here, especially helping each other on our houses.

Here’s the current leaderboard of reputation, based on forum and chat participation:
http://detroitarcology.org:6006/#/explorer

Combined with the time in our work logs, that’s our total share in Detroit Arcology. @Dame can decide to stake 100 of his units total on this project (other members can join in and contribute their units as well, in exchange for equity in the house). We can decide that each unit is worth $50 of equity, so that 100 units is worth the $50,000 rehab amount, to be completed in one year. We would vote on this, perhaps by just creating a forum post proposing the exchange rate and deadline, and all of us replying to it with “yes” or “no”.

If @Dame and the other stakers finish the house on time and pay back Detroit Arcology, they get their 100 units back. If they don’t finish the house on time, Detroit Arcology burns the 100 units and puts a lien on the house for $50,000, which can be paid off in the future. This option can be written into the 16669 Log Cabin Road LLC operating agreement. This is a last resort, and I don’t expect we’ll use it, but I think it will help all of us for it to be there.

@Dame doesn’t currently have 100 units, but he can post more, such as videos from Griggs house or the demolition at Log Cabin Road, and I think we’d all be happy to acknowledge his posts here and to cheer on his progress. @yfgame might be interested in coming to the build sites and helping with the video uploads and other technical issues.

I’d like to work on the software for this staking and burning part, while we are working to raise the money.

Where does the $50,000 come from initially? I would put in $10k of my own money as a personal loan, and we can request the remainder from Detroit Community Wealth Fund, any neighbor who wants to join us for amounts as small as say $100, or other crypto cooperatives online (DAOs). I would ask all of those groups to join our forum, track our progress, and hold us accountable. (Essentially they would join our DAO, and earn units alongside us, for doing the work of our democracy and to protect their investment).

  1. Would the property cause any issues with the business structure?
    I don’t think so, but it would help us flesh out our structure as described above.

  2. How much equity does X dollars give you?
    If you (@Dame) paid $50,000 for the house from the land bank, and need the additional $50,000 for rehab, then I propose @Dame gets 50% equity (not > 50%), and everyone else gets a share of the remaining 50% of equity based on how much they contribute to the $50k of rehab costs. If I contribute $10k, I would get 10% equity. If DAOs give us $30k, they or their representative would get 30% equity. If Detroit Community Wealth Fund, as a non-profit, does not want equity and to give us a straight loan, they can decide to delegate their equity to anyone else they choose or to one of us.

Any feedback on the above proposal is welcome.

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Thanks for that good info. As stated I too believe this will help us iron out and clarify some processes and give us a structure to follow in the future. I have a lot of points so Ill try to hit them all but Ill start by asking this. Has it been discussed about making this a non profit? I am new to the co-op business structure so I am still figuring things out lol but I assume that its generally for non profit services. The reason why I ask this is because a lot of the points @cryptogoth brought up seem to align with something a non profit organization would do. Another concern I have is at first I liked the idea that money can buy you ownership because it was similar to a traditional business structure however after reading @cryptogoth’s post I think that we should reconsider that because this puts some potential members out of the game which would be the opposite of what we ultimately are trying to accomplish. Also I like the idea of labor, time and donations adding up to ownership but it is complicated to not only quantify some of those things but whos to say that person A’s labor is more valuable than Person B’s which can be the case in some situations. Maybe we can create a system where the labor or time is exchanged for currency and then exchanged into units for simplicity.

With that being said I honestly think that a share based venture and grant DAO will be the best bet. we could create a venture fund that pools investment capital and votes on ventures to back. Repaid money could later be redistributed amongst DAO-members. I also believe that would solve our dilemma with 3731 as well. If we agree that Detroit Arcology is a venture based DAO it would be much simpler to write up A operating agreement. Your initial investment would determine how much dividend you receive when the terms are met. I know @cryptogoth said that as a corporation we wouldnt payout dividend but we should reconsider that because we can always re-invest the money which would be intentions of most people.

If it is agreed that money will be loaned for 16669 what will the terms be ? Will there be separate contracts for amounts that add up $50K or one contract for the total amount. When you said that 1 unit would equal $500 dollars is that assuming the property has a $100k valuation? Also we discussed some of the pitfalls during the Zoom Call such as going over budget as this property has the ability to do. Or not finishing the property on time.

I actually like the idea of leveraging units to use for funds or borrowing from DA I believe if all other avenues dont pan out that will still be a viable option as long as the terms are good for all parties.

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